Comments on: Yahoo! Music Personalization Primer + Pandora, Last.fm, Soundflavor http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/ Digital music products Weblog from the team at Yahoo! Music Mon, 06 Oct 2008 00:16:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: » Sounds Like “Glōsōli” by Sigur Ros - The Rhapsody Radish - Music Playlist Archive http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/#comment-1791 » Sounds Like “Glōsōli” by Sigur Ros - The Rhapsody Radish - Music Playlist Archive Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:33:13 +0000 http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/#comment-1791 [...] Sounds Like “Glōsōli” by Sigur Ros Play It! A recent post at the Y! Music Blog got me thinking about music recommendation software like LAUNCHcast, Pandora and Last.fm. I definitely think they have their value, but I still feel recommendations by real people are superior. These services are great for folks without a lot of time or knowledge and are also good tools for playlisters to augment their work. Let me know what you think? This playlist features songs recommended by Pandora as sounding like “Glōsōli” by Sigur Ros. I disregarded a bunch of dogs by Chicago, Celine Dion and Peter Cetera to come up with this list. [...] […] Sounds Like “Glōsōli” by Sigur Ros Play It! A recent post at the Y! Music Blog got me thinking about music recommendation software like LAUNCHcast, Pandora and Last.fm. I definitely think they have their value, but I still feel recommendations by real people are superior. These services are great for folks without a lot of time or knowledge and are also good tools for playlisters to augment their work. Let me know what you think? This playlist features songs recommended by Pandora as sounding like “Glōsōli” by Sigur Ros. I disregarded a bunch of dogs by Chicago, Celine Dion and Peter Cetera to come up with this list. […]

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By: » Sounds Like “Glōsōli” by Sigur Ros - Yahoo! Radish http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/#comment-217 » Sounds Like “Glōsōli” by Sigur Ros - Yahoo! Radish Mon, 08 May 2006 01:32:01 +0000 http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/#comment-217 [...] Play It! A recent post at the Y! Music Blog got me thinking about music recommendation software like LAUNCHcast, Pandora and Last.fm. I definitely think they have their value, but I still feel recommendations by real people are superior. These services are great for folks without a lot of time or knowledge and are also good tools for playlisters to augment their work. Let me know what you think? This playlist features songs recommended by Pandora as sounding like “Glōsōli” by Sigur Ros. I had to disregard a bunch of dogs by Chicago, Celine Dion and Peter Cetera to come up with this list. [...] […] Play It! A recent post at the Y! Music Blog got me thinking about music recommendation software like LAUNCHcast, Pandora and Last.fm. I definitely think they have their value, but I still feel recommendations by real people are superior. These services are great for folks without a lot of time or knowledge and are also good tools for playlisters to augment their work. Let me know what you think? This playlist features songs recommended by Pandora as sounding like “Glōsōli” by Sigur Ros. I had to disregard a bunch of dogs by Chicago, Celine Dion and Peter Cetera to come up with this list. […]

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By: zachbaker http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/#comment-168 zachbaker Sat, 04 Mar 2006 09:29:33 +0000 http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/#comment-168 You know, I finally started using last.fm just before I read this post after coming over from Jeremy Zawodny's site. So I figure hey, I should give Yahoo! a chance, right? But because I finally collected enough taste to switch to a Mac last year, you know how this story ends. Shame and heartbreak, baby. Why must this be? P.S. What, I'm supposed to use Netscape Navigator 4? Hi-ho, I'm surfing Arpanet! Sure, I guess I could download it from Decrepit Browser Depot, but then I could also turn on the radio. You know, I finally started using last.fm just before I read this post after coming over from Jeremy Zawodny’s site. So I figure hey, I should give Yahoo! a chance, right? But because I finally collected enough taste to switch to a Mac last year, you know how this story ends. Shame and heartbreak, baby. Why must this be?

P.S. What, I’m supposed to use Netscape Navigator 4? Hi-ho, I’m surfing Arpanet! Sure, I guess I could download it from Decrepit Browser Depot, but then I could also turn on the radio.

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By: Andrei Zmievski http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/#comment-131 Andrei Zmievski Fri, 17 Feb 2006 06:45:34 +0000 http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/#comment-131 <strong>Discover New Music...</strong> Inspired by the latest entry at Yahoo! Music Blog, I registered at Last.fm and started feeding my playlist information to them via the AudioScrobbler iTunes plugin. My profile there is slowly building and I am looking forward to checking out what their... Discover New Music…

Inspired by the latest entry at Yahoo! Music Blog, I registered at Last.fm and started feeding my playlist information to them via the AudioScrobbler iTunes plugin. My profile there is slowly building and I am looking forward to checking out what their…

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By: indiesoc http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/#comment-128 indiesoc Wed, 15 Feb 2006 23:27:32 +0000 http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/#comment-128 Thanks Todd -- this posting was very timely for me, as I’ve been going Last FM crazy the past couple of weeks (http://www.last.fm/user/indiesoc). A long-time Launchcast listener, I’ve been intrigued by the options that Last FM presents. First, it is much easier to set up new “stations” via the tag process. To sample new artists, just pick 15 that are available in the database and . . . you’re off (with subscription)! It is also a great way to explore less popular genres, such as psychedelic pop, krautrock, or post-rock, via (free) global tag radio. These genres and many others simply have no presence on Launch. Last FM has 2 other advantages worth mentioning: the free service allows unlimited skips (unlike Pandora and Launch), and access to music from the Beatles and Beastie Boys. I’ve also gone back to Pandora, and, taking Robert’s suggestion, entered a song title, with some pretty great results. I’m well versed in obscure bands, yet Pandora gave me artists I had never heard of that were also, in fact, similar to the song I had entered. I understand Pandora/Music Genome Project is a song-based recommendation system, so it might be that it works better when you enter a song rather than an artist. The obvious downside of Pandora is the user’s lack of control, including not knowing what is in the database. While both Last and Pandora have done a better job than Launch of introducing me to new music in the recent past, this has a lot to do with the fact that they provide, for me, untapped databases of music. I would still recommend Launch as THE place to start exploring for newbies. But, I do wish it were easier to find the hidden gems in the Launch database. The algorithm prioritizes new releases, but most everything else has to be searched out artist by artist. Fan stations are useless, since they play the most popular songs in the artist’s given genre and little else. (I was going to include my rant about the Zombies fan station here, but I’ll spare you the gory details.) In the end, I'm glad all of these sites exist. As far as music discovery options are concerned, I say the more, the merrier! Thanks Todd — this posting was very timely for me, as I’ve been going Last FM crazy the past couple of weeks (http://www.last.fm/user/indiesoc). A long-time Launchcast listener, I’ve been intrigued by the options that Last FM presents. First, it is much easier to set up new “stations” via the tag process. To sample new artists, just pick 15 that are available in the database and . . . you’re off (with subscription)! It is also a great way to explore less popular genres, such as psychedelic pop, krautrock, or post-rock, via (free) global tag radio. These genres and many others simply have no presence on Launch. Last FM has 2 other advantages worth mentioning: the free service allows unlimited skips (unlike Pandora and Launch), and access to music from the Beatles and Beastie Boys.

I’ve also gone back to Pandora, and, taking Robert’s suggestion, entered a song title, with some pretty great results. I’m well versed in obscure bands, yet Pandora gave me artists I had never heard of that were also, in fact, similar to the song I had entered. I understand Pandora/Music Genome Project is a song-based recommendation system, so it might be that it works better when you enter a song rather than an artist. The obvious downside of Pandora is the user’s lack of control, including not knowing what is in the database.

While both Last and Pandora have done a better job than Launch of introducing me to new music in the recent past, this has a lot to do with the fact that they provide, for me, untapped databases of music. I would still recommend Launch as THE place to start exploring for newbies. But, I do wish it were easier to find the hidden gems in the Launch database. The algorithm prioritizes new releases, but most everything else has to be searched out artist by artist. Fan stations are useless, since they play the most popular songs in the artist’s given genre and little else. (I was going to include my rant about the Zombies fan station here, but I’ll spare you the gory details.)

In the end, I’m glad all of these sites exist. As far as music discovery options are concerned, I say the more, the merrier!

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By: krinderlin http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/#comment-126 krinderlin Wed, 15 Feb 2006 05:24:10 +0000 http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/#comment-126 Having used Pandora some, I agree, it is pretty much novelty only. While it is nice to run into some obscure artists, I've found that you constantly have to add in new songs and artists to your station or you end up with the exact same sound over and over. I'm serious. It's a total dead end for someone with eclectic tastes like mine. Even after I based my station on a rock song, a rap song, a trance song, and throw in maybe Hootie and the Blow Fish for a few suprises, within a week I ended up with 10 drum-and-bass songs in a row. <i>Who's</i> running this thing? LaunchCAST has much more leniency especially with it's moods. Sometimes I'm good for anything, other times, like during Calc homework, I need a something more ambient and electronic. I love Y!ME so far. It has it's kinks, but every other program in the world goes through the same. I'm gonna hang out with you guys for a while and watch what comes out. :-) Also, one feature I really would like to see you guys adopt: I would love it if I could with a simple click snatch the first 10 or 20 songs off of my recomended list and drop it into my MP3 player. Right now, I list all songs, drag the first 20-ish to a playlist, then drag the playlist to my MP3 player. I could do the automatic synch, but I'm still manually working with my playlists. Not a big deal, but it would really rock. Having used Pandora some, I agree, it is pretty much novelty only. While it is nice to run into some obscure artists, I’ve found that you constantly have to add in new songs and artists to your station or you end up with the exact same sound over and over.

I’m serious. It’s a total dead end for someone with eclectic tastes like mine. Even after I based my station on a rock song, a rap song, a trance song, and throw in maybe Hootie and the Blow Fish for a few suprises, within a week I ended up with 10 drum-and-bass songs in a row. Who’s running this thing?

LaunchCAST has much more leniency especially with it’s moods. Sometimes I’m good for anything, other times, like during Calc homework, I need a something more ambient and electronic.

I love Y!ME so far. It has it’s kinks, but every other program in the world goes through the same. I’m gonna hang out with you guys for a while and watch what comes out. :-)

Also, one feature I really would like to see you guys adopt: I would love it if I could with a simple click snatch the first 10 or 20 songs off of my recomended list and drop it into my MP3 player. Right now, I list all songs, drag the first 20-ish to a playlist, then drag the playlist to my MP3 player. I could do the automatic synch, but I’m still manually working with my playlists. Not a big deal, but it would really rock.

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By: danielcole http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/#comment-125 danielcole Wed, 15 Feb 2006 02:34:01 +0000 http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/#comment-125 I've not tried Yahoo Music but Jeremy's blog post about you guys got me interested. I buy more music a month than is probably good for me and I've tried Pandora and Last.fm both for sources of new music. You know what those two services have over Yahoo Music? They work on my Mac and with Firefox. I would really truly like to try your stations - they look Great. But I can't. Drop the MS Monopoly nonsense and gain some more customers (we've already proven we have open wallets - we bought a Mac, didn't we?). I’ve not tried Yahoo Music but Jeremy’s blog post about you guys got me interested. I buy more music a month than is probably good for me and I’ve tried Pandora and Last.fm both for sources of new music.

You know what those two services have over Yahoo Music? They work on my Mac and with Firefox.

I would really truly like to try your stations - they look Great. But I can’t.

Drop the MS Monopoly nonsense and gain some more customers (we’ve already proven we have open wallets - we bought a Mac, didn’t we?).

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By: Marc’s Voice » Blog Archive » Yahoo Music Blog http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/#comment-121 Marc’s Voice » Blog Archive » Yahoo Music Blog Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:42:37 +0000 http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/#comment-121 [...] One particularly interesting post is on various personalization systems. [...] […] One particularly interesting post is on various personalization systems. […]

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By: marccanter http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/#comment-120 marccanter Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:39:07 +0000 http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/#comment-120 OK here's a seed I'd like to plant. OpenTaste.org. End-users want to be able to move their personalization and behavior patterns between systems. I'll leave it up to you nerds to figure out how to do it - but let's not let these 'tastes' be used as a form of lock-in! OK here’s a seed I’d like to plant.

OpenTaste.org.

End-users want to be able to move their personalization and behavior patterns between systems.

I’ll leave it up to you nerds to figure out how to do it - but let’s not let these ‘tastes’ be used as a form of lock-in!

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By: tbeaupre http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/#comment-117 tbeaupre Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:11:02 +0000 http://ymusicblog.com/blog/2006/02/10/yahoo-music-personalization-primer-pandora-lastfm-soundflavor/#comment-117 Rob, "The traditional radio model at least joined people in herded mediocrity." You seem to be implying that traditional radio mediocrity is better that what we offer? Based on what value? LAUNCHcast and recommendations leverage herds for their advantages, but do not reduce everyone's experience to the lowest common denominator. They enable more diversified herds, each of which is more tuned to its members' tastes than the traditional radio model. Care to provide any evidence to support your theory that our recommendations and customized radio are described accurately by ANY of the $2 words you used? * pernicious (causing great harm; destructive... of what?) * reductivisitic (minimizing... our product does not focus on a few characteristics, but millions of music fans' opinions, which are far from simplistic) * arbitrary (seems like a filler adjective) * dead-end (based on comments I've seen from many users, LAUNCHcast broadens music horizons both in terms of consumptions and relationships with other music fans. personally, the best man at my wedding was someone I met through LAUNCHcast 6 years ago because we shared music interest in an obscure artist. he's still a great friend, and we would not have met through broadcast radio) * singular (while there is individual control, recommendations are largely based on opinions of users with tastes in common) Also, recommendation systems are not predicated on affinities being deterministic or music generating a universally singular response. One person can like a certain peanut butter and boysenberry jelly sandwich because of the chunky peanut butter. Another person can like it for the raspberry jelly. A good recommendation system can deduce chunky peanut butter tastes from boysenberry jelly tastes, and use that knowledge to recommend great foods that might taste nothing like either, but are nonetheless delicious to you and your idiosyncratic human art-loving herd. Rob,

“The traditional radio model at least joined people in herded mediocrity.” You seem to be implying that traditional radio mediocrity is better that what we offer? Based on what value?

LAUNCHcast and recommendations leverage herds for their advantages, but do not reduce everyone’s experience to the lowest common denominator. They enable more diversified herds, each of which is more tuned to its members’ tastes than the traditional radio model.

Care to provide any evidence to support your theory that our recommendations and customized radio are described accurately by ANY of the $2 words you used?

* pernicious (causing great harm; destructive… of what?)
* reductivisitic (minimizing… our product does not focus on a few characteristics, but millions of music fans’ opinions, which are far from simplistic)
* arbitrary (seems like a filler adjective)
* dead-end (based on comments I’ve seen from many users, LAUNCHcast broadens music horizons both in terms of consumptions and relationships with other music fans. personally, the best man at my wedding was someone I met through LAUNCHcast 6 years ago because we shared music interest in an obscure artist. he’s still a great friend, and we would not have met through broadcast radio)
* singular (while there is individual control, recommendations are largely based on opinions of users with tastes in common)

Also, recommendation systems are not predicated on affinities being deterministic or music generating a universally singular response. One person can like a certain peanut butter and boysenberry jelly sandwich because of the chunky peanut butter. Another person can like it for the raspberry jelly. A good recommendation system can deduce chunky peanut butter tastes from boysenberry jelly tastes, and use that knowledge to recommend great foods that might taste nothing like either, but are nonetheless delicious to you and your idiosyncratic human art-loving herd.

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